“DEI” is an umbrella term, but not all marginalized groups have benefited equally from this movement. In 1985, women made up 22% of management positions in corporate America, while African-American employees made up three percent. Fast forward to 2020: Women make up 38%—a 60% growth in representation—while African Americans still only represent 3.2%.

“It’s statistically insignificant. In 35 years, corporate America was unable to move the needle,” said Robert Perkins, chief global diversity and inclusion officer for Mondelēz International, Inc. He believes that this statistic represents the challenges involved in making progress with diversity, equity and inclusion work, and why corporate America has an extremely long way to go to achieve equity in the workplace.

Perkins joined John Simons, executive editor at TIME, for a fireside chat at From Day One’s February virtual conference on the state of DEI. As diversity chief for a global snack maker, making everything from Cadbury to Oreos, Perkins revealed that, since 2020, his company has doubled the number of women in leadership roles and experienced 72% growth in the number of Black managers.

Perkins shared a “three-pillar strategy” that’s been adopted by Mondelēz: “First of all, we look at our colleagues; workforce representation, at the end of the day, is in my eyes most important,” he said. “You need to look at your pipeline and how you’re building it.”

He continued, “Our second pillar is culture. We’re very focused on engagement and how engagement drives higher productivity and business results,” Perkins said, stressing research that says leaders give 60 to 65% of capacity on any given day, but more when they feel most connected to organization. “That’s when companies are getting better productivity and results,” he noted.

The third pillar is community. “Externally, what are we doing in the communities where we work and live?” Perkins asked. “One of our biggest initiatives is around economic inclusion and supplier diversity.” The company’s goal is to spend $1 billion with women and minority-owned businesses by 2024; they’ve spent over $500 million already.

“I’d say this is the most overlooked by all of corporate America,” Perkins said of supplier diversity. “This impacts the economic wealth-building of women and minorities, and it has the larger societal impact of creating gender and racial equity.” 

Perkins also emphasized the importance of internal education and training to bring employees on board with DEI goals. “My subjective statement is that the majority of leaders across corporate America are not comfortable, confident, or capable of having DEI conversations,” he said. His suggestion is for companies to take these conversations “head on” and to invest in education on matters having to do with equity, equality, and representation. 

Perkins also called for bold, large-scale change to reach the level of equity to which many companies aspire. “We need creativity and to have difficult conversations,” he said. “Otherwise it won’t happen in our lifetime,” he said. 

Even though the position of chief diversity officers remains one of the fastest-growing jobs since its peak in 2020, Perkins cited a 60% turnover in chief diversity officers since that year. “That’s largely because of their disappointment with the commitment and accountability to DEI goals, and because they don’t feel like they can accomplish what they were hired to accomplish,” he said. 

Investments must be made across the company, from leadership down the employee ranks. Short-term goals should be replaced by long-term commitments. “It starts with leadership’s commitment to an articulated and defined strategy and goals,” Perkins said. “And leadership’s accountability to the systems in place for measuring progress against goals.”

Emily Nonko is a freelance journalist based in Brooklyn, NY. In addition to writing for From Day One, her work has been published in Next City, the Wall Street Journal, the Guardian and other publications.